Stardate 20031206.1105

(Captain's log): Yesterday I wrote about an anime series called Louie the Rune Soldier and in passing mentioned that Louie had known the head of a certain religious order since he had been a child, and tried to demonstrate their relationship by the fact that he called her "Aunt Jennie" and she called him "Lou-kun". And I then tacked on the following explanation:

"-kun" is a suffix used by girls and women for men and boys to indicate familiarity and affection; "Lou-kun" would be translated more-or-less as "Lou dear" or "Lou love". "-chan" is a similar suffix used by everyone to refer to girls and attractive young women, or so I understand it.

That was my basic understanding more or less from observation of how it is used in the things I've watched so far, so it's not surprising that I didn't really get it correct. Japanese has several suffixes which can be applied to someone's name which indicate that person's perceived status in the eyes of the speaker.

I've received several letters about that one comment, mostly expanding on what I said, and I thought I'd set the record (more) straight, mixing comments from several others with more of my own comments.

Bryan starts us off thusly:

When addressing someone in Japanese, a suffix is almost always added. The full list of all commonly-encountered suffixes, in approximate order from most-honorific to most-diminutive, is:

-sama
-sensei
-san
-kun
-chan

-sama: Closest English equivalent might be something like "honored sir" (although it applies equally to either gender). An underling addressing a samurai, or princess, or shogun, or such would use this; so would a storekeeper, bank teller, or the like to a customer. This is also the honorific form you use when addressing a letter to someone (i.e. you'd put "Tanaka-sama" on the envelope, even though you'd refer to the same person as "Tanaka-san" in conversation).

During the feudal period, -sama would have been used to refer to anyone of a higher caste or a higher rank. The closest translation in English would be "milord". With the end of feudalism in Japan, it's not surprising that -sama's use has drifted, and now seems to be a way of showing particular respect. (And, as my buddy Bill points out, one also addresses deities using -sama.) English milord is not used in America but still appears in limited contexts in the UK. (For instance, barristers address judges in court as "milord", while wearing those silly gowns and wigs.)

Bryan continues:

-sensei: Literally, "Teacher." An honorific used in pretty much the same way we use "Dr." instead of "Mr./Ms." for people with PhD's or MD's. More broadly applicable than "Dr.", though: applies to teachers, doctors, and lawyers.

It's also used for anyone who has a black belt in martial arts. (I first learned the word when I studied karate.) And, it turns out, it's used for any Go player ranked 1 Dan or higher (more or less the Go equivalent of Chess grandmasters). Interestingly, a first degree black belt is also called "1 Dan".

Back when I still actively played Go and was about 9 kyu, I had an opportunity to play a 4 Dan, and with a nine stone handicap I got creamed. He was 13 ranks higher than me, and a fair game would have required a 13 stone handicap. But handicaps above 9 stones are vulgar and self-respecting Go players don't use those patterns.

-san: General-purpose suffix, pretty much status-neutral. Roughly equivalent to "Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss", but can be used either with given names or surnames.

It more or less indicates respect, but it's more the fact that omitting it and using no suffix at all when addressing someone who is not an intimate is a sign of contempt and disrespect. -san is the default.

-kun: Slightly-diminutive form. (Roughly equivalent to calling someone named Robert "Bob"). Used only for males, and only for people that one is "familiar with" (i.e. roughly equivalent of "on a casual first-name basis" in American culture). Use of -kun implies youth (you'd never hear someone middle-aged or older called -kun). Used only on someone at equal or lower status than the speaker (where higher status equates not just to social position but also fairly strongly with age). For example, Japanese schoolboys call each other this, and their teacher might call them this (rather than -san) if he's in a friendly mood. You might refer to a young co-worker as this, assuming that you're on friendly terms. But you'd never call your boss this, nor would you refer to someone else as -kun when speaking to your boss. Your rough translation of "Lou-kun" as "Lou dear" is pretty good, if it's coming from a grandmotherly woman; he could also be called Lou-kun by friendly male compatriots (if he had any), in which case it would be more like "Louie buddy".

Kenneth doesn't fully agree:

-kun can refer to females as well as males; in Excel Saga, both Excel and Hayatt are referred to as such, as well as quite a few other instances in anime. It seems to indicate someone whome the speaker is familiar with, of some social standing but not as high as the speaker, usually a male student or a subordinate at work.

And Hatani writes:

-kun: used affectionately for boys/men - by women AND men. -kun can also be used for women on infrequent occasions (e.g. a company supervisor may address a female employee as Tanaka-kun, partly to include her in the company "family" - the more childlike diminutive "chan" could be considered too familiar or patronizing in a formal relationship).

Bryan continues:

-chan: Extreme diminutive/familiar/casual form. Roughly equivalent to calling someone named Robert "Bobby," or someone named Margaret "Maggie." This is used for very small (kindergarten or younger) children of either gender, and for girls or young women (if on very friendly terms).

Bill again:

Many women also use -chan as an affectation towards familiar males, usually their boyfriends. It's similar to the English suffix "poo". A lot of men find this grating, in the same way that being called "Stevie-poo" would grate in English. Basically, the fact that a girl could call you this and live is proof that she's your girlfriend, because it would be intolerable from anyone else. It's a fairly recent (and much disliked by men) form of "-chan" that's only been around for about a decade.

There is no equivalent violation of the feminine suffix "-ko".

In English we do some of this kind of thing, mostly via nicknames e.g. Robert, Rob, Robbie or Robby. Most (but by no means all) names have standard diminuative versions (e.g. Bill for William, Vickie or Tori for Victoria) and in some cases they're gender-specific.

It's interesting that in English some names are distinctly gender-specific and some are not. No one in their right mind would name their girl William (or their boy Sue) but Chris and Robyn can be either. (I have known more male's named Robyn than female.) "Chris" is also a nickname for feminine Christine and masculine Christopher (both of which derive from "Christ") but Chris has become a name in its own right. However, only girls would be called Chrissie.

We often use an -ie ending (or use -y) in the way the Japanese seem to use -chan, to create nicknames which would usually only be applied to a kid, though occasionally such a name sticks

This kind of thing is pretty ad hoc, just like so much else in this language, and that can make them hard for foreigners to learn. By using a small list of suffixes, it's probably more straightforward in Japanese, but the fine points of usage are still going to be difficult for outsiders to pick up, given the dual dangers of seeming excessively obsequious or pompous if one errs on the side of being too formal, or of insulting someone by being excessively familiar.

But there are also cultural differences involved. Americans don't bow and scrape for those in power. We offer respect, but we don't cast down our eyes or bend knee. We see that as a sign of weakness.

A lot of people around the world tend to be put off by the casually familiar way that Americans deal even with strangers, if they don't have much experience dealing with us.

It's not that we're rude; we're definitely respectful. But for us, being familiar with a stranger is courteous. Treating them with hostility or suspicion without cause is rude, and we don't kowtow to anyone, so familiarity is the default. But in other lands, where those kinds of things are more formalized and the people are more reserved, it can seem vulgar and pushy, like a used car salesman who acts like he's your best friend.

Ultimately the only real way to internalize these kinds of cultural differences is by extended exposure to them. Ideally you live there. But you can learn at least a little even from a distance. Part of the fun I'm having in watching all these anime shows has been the way it has revealed things to me about the Japanese, about the ways in which we're the same (because we're all human) and different (because of drastic cultural differences).

And I would venture to say that there are few things that reveal more about someone than what makes them laugh.

Update: Tae writes from Tokyo:

I think your correspondent Bryan has got the hierarchy of Japanese terms of address slightly off. I think it goes more like:

-heika
-denka
-kakka
-dono
-sensei
-sama
-shi
-san
-kun
-chan

The top two are noble/royal titles, and probably not used much outside of discussion of the Imperial family (although, delightfully, in those programs about the Princess Aiko, you hear the Crown Prince and his wife referred to as "Ryou-denka," which is "both-highnesses"). Kakka is used for ambassadors and notables just as we use (or used to use) Excellency for ambassadors. Dono used to be the word for lords (sort of like Herr), at least in samurai movies, but it is now used in address labelling. "shi" is a respectful term for Mr. (like the Korean "-ssi") and is not common today, except in formal writing. To a certain extent, terms like "hakase" (Professor Doctor) are in this same class of written honourifics. I think hakase is occasionally used in speech too.

Sensei is, I think higher status than sama, because its use is more selective. Sama is used to indicate a marked status differential. In ordinary keigo--what you would use in, say, a business conversation with a client--you would use "sama." It is perfectly ordinary, and everyone gets called sama at some point. Indeed, I've seen a sarariiman blow up at a construction worker for failing to address him properly with keigo, and "sama." Sensei, with teachers proper, can be fairly low status, and one generally does not use full deferential speech with actual teachers. But sensei is used for a number of other functions, in which contexts it conveys much greater humility. Japanese (not foreign) lawyers are all referred to as sensei, at least by non-lawyers. So are doctors. Prominent people are also addressed as sensei, even outside of particularised social contexts (unlike sama, whose use is mostly governed by immediate context).

To a certain extent, I suppose, sama and sensei are part of different hierarchies, so its a bit like apples and oranges. Sensei conveys actual status, like Excellency (the way it used to be used) or Sir, Lordship, Grace, Eminence, Highness, Majesty, Holiness, etc. So do kakka, denka, and heika. The lower levels of the hierarchy (sama, san, kun, chan) shift with context. Sama, san, and kun appear in business contexts regularly, so they convey a certain distance. At the same time, wives (and possibly husbands) will sometimes refer to their spouses as "san," so it's not that much distance. Kun is, I think, a little colder than your correspondents have made out to be, though (as with everything) it varies from context to context. And I feel fairly certain that there are significant dialect differences to boot. I only know standard Tokyo Japanese (the Japanese equivalent of RP--and even then, as a foreigner), so I can't say. But I recall hearing that many of them have special honourifics, and use extant honourifics quite differently. The situation is similar to the situation with the myriads of "you" address forms (kimi, omae, temee, kisama, sochira, otaku, etc.).

Lastly, chan is not nearly so twee as "-poo".

And Stuby writes:

I noticed that "sensei" has been described as only being related to "teacher" or "master" but it has a more usual meaning in the everyday life of a Japanese. It literally means "one who was born before" and since Japanese tend to think of age and experience as being the true measure of skill (not performance, as their seniority-based promotion system proves!), you can call any older person whose skill you respect "sensei." For example, if I was a budding manga artist and I met a famous artist, I'd probably call him by his name with the -sensei suffix to indicate that I am a humble student seeking his wisdom and experience. Most older Japanese that practice a skill take great pride in being called -sensei, because it refers directly to their status as an educated/learned/experienced person, rather than just a social rank. In a company, it's quite improper for anyone to use -kun except for the senior employees and most people, including the president of a company just use -s an, since the "family" of the company includes him, as well. Calling a girl -chan is usually not done unless she is quite young...especially when women's rights are on the rise over there.

In short, when you meet a Japanese for business, ALWAYS call him by his/her last name and -san. If he is your senior in a skill you want to learn, or senpai, you can call him -sensei if you want to let him know that you want to learn from him in a student-pupil relationship. Never call Japanese by their first names unless you are older than they are. Even if I was out with my friend who was 28, I'd call him by his first name and -kun or -san only if we were really close. Otherwise, his last name would be used. With my girlfriend, she uses -kun and I use -chan with her. She also uses a "cutesy" way of speaking and I use it when talking to her...but we'd never use -san with each other unless we were becoming distant.

Japanese is a useless language in part because of its complexity and duplicity of meaning. It takes a LOT of effort to learn and it doesn't pay dividends anymore. It's sort of like the UN of languages as far as communication is concerned, but English is the GW Bush version.

Yeesh...